INTERVIEW | Iván Fischer | "The Budapest Festival Orchestra... a model for the symphony orchestra of the future"
In conversation with Iván Fischer
Interviewed on 15 November 2019.
"What does it mean to be a musician?", is no simple question to any professional musician. To know the meaning of oneself requires being conscious of oneself at every moment, yet how difficult this is to know. After all, consciousness is always hindsight, a neat generalisation made only possible after immediate actions have come to an end or to a reasonably conclusive end enough to be verbally described. The "now", in all its vital physicality, is a psychological void locked between theories called the past and the future. If one is lucky to meet a musician who may be close to understanding the cause of their profession, they would likely be those with thoughtfulness and vast experience.
Mr Iván Fischer, founder and music director of the Budapest Festival Orchestra, is a musician in an abundance of both traits, through which he shapes a musicality rarely matched in sensitivity and personality. Yet Mr Fischer also has special enthusiasms for the social causes of music and for creative programming - both cases expand the reach of classical music beyond the usual realms of audiences and society. Mr Fischer, a musician of breathtaking musical imaginations, is also a philosophising humanist and an experimenting scientist.
That Mr Fischer elevates music beyond the notes was all but confirmed in my question-and-answer exchange with Mr Fischer. In Mr Fischer's answers, a recurring assumption is that music exists because there was or is a human behind it, an assumption that constantly returns to thoughts of what it means to be a musician. Starting with questions related to the social functions of music, I asked for Mr Fischer's thoughts on the passing of Marta Kurtág, difficulties in composing as a conductor, ugliness in music, and about the music of Bruckner, Mahler, and Mozart.
Young-Jin Hur (YH): I’ve heard of your specially organised concert in June in Korea in relation to the ship accident at the Danube. I thought that was an incredibly moving gesture. Thank you. Could you tell us how did the idea of this specially arranged concert came about?
YH: As a performer, when is the moment you are most moved? Conversely, as a listener, when is the moment you are most moved, assuming you do listen to music?
YH: Recently, you replaced Mikko Franck at a Berliner Philharmoniker concert. You played Rautavaara, Prokofiev, Debussy, and Ravel. These are composers outside of your usual repertoire, especially Rautavaara. Was it a difficult decision to replace Mikko Franck, given that the pieces are not your usual 18th and 19th-century repertoire? Relatedly, how did it feel like, as an experienced conductor, to rehearse and play music you may be slightly unaccustomed to?
YH: We’ve heard of the sad loss of Marta Kurtág. How can you describe her to people who have and perhaps will never meet her ever?
YH: It is my understanding that you compose, and you have recorded some of your pieces. Since you play so much music of other composers, do you become worried you might be influenced too much by others?
YH: Are there moments you get inspired for compositions in particular?
YH: Mahler is a composer you strongly identify with (apart from the 8th symphony). Bruckner is often mentioned together with Mahler, and perhaps there are similarities between the two composers. Is there perhaps a reason you play relatively more Mahler than Bruckner?
YH: Mozart once said that “Music, even in situations of the greatest horror, should never be painful to the ear but should flatter and charm it, and thereby always remain music.” In your experience, can or should there be ugly music?
YH: What are some of your future plans?
Interviewed on 15 November 2019.
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| Iván Fischer, © Marco Borggreve |
"What does it mean to be a musician?", is no simple question to any professional musician. To know the meaning of oneself requires being conscious of oneself at every moment, yet how difficult this is to know. After all, consciousness is always hindsight, a neat generalisation made only possible after immediate actions have come to an end or to a reasonably conclusive end enough to be verbally described. The "now", in all its vital physicality, is a psychological void locked between theories called the past and the future. If one is lucky to meet a musician who may be close to understanding the cause of their profession, they would likely be those with thoughtfulness and vast experience.
Mr Iván Fischer, founder and music director of the Budapest Festival Orchestra, is a musician in an abundance of both traits, through which he shapes a musicality rarely matched in sensitivity and personality. Yet Mr Fischer also has special enthusiasms for the social causes of music and for creative programming - both cases expand the reach of classical music beyond the usual realms of audiences and society. Mr Fischer, a musician of breathtaking musical imaginations, is also a philosophising humanist and an experimenting scientist.
That Mr Fischer elevates music beyond the notes was all but confirmed in my question-and-answer exchange with Mr Fischer. In Mr Fischer's answers, a recurring assumption is that music exists because there was or is a human behind it, an assumption that constantly returns to thoughts of what it means to be a musician. Starting with questions related to the social functions of music, I asked for Mr Fischer's thoughts on the passing of Marta Kurtág, difficulties in composing as a conductor, ugliness in music, and about the music of Bruckner, Mahler, and Mozart.
I.
Young-Jin Hur (YH): I’ve heard of your specially organised concert in June in Korea in relation to the ship accident at the Danube. I thought that was an incredibly moving gesture. Thank you. Could you tell us how did the idea of this specially arranged concert came about?
Iván Fischer (IF): This terrible tragedy moved many people in Hungary very deeply. We imagined tourists coming from Korea and after this disaster, we also imagined that the reputation of Budapest could be severely damaged there. Also, people in Korea had very little information about the sympathy Hungarian people felt with them. Our tour was scheduled exactly in that month, so it was a natural opportunity to express our feelings and consolation for the families.
YH: In fact, you often speak of moral values or functions in music, and I feel there is a sense of social responsibility in your music-making. This includes your special concerts for autistic children. For you, is morality or social responsibility essential to music, or is morality or social responsibility something that only adds on to the absolute beauties of music?
IF: I see the main task of the conductor is precisely this social responsibility. The only reason why a community keeps an orchestra in their city is because they need the services of the orchestra. The service is a flow of cultural values. The leader of the orchestra, the music director has to make sure that the cultural needs of the community are well served.
II.
YH: As a performer, when is the moment you are most moved? Conversely, as a listener, when is the moment you are most moved, assuming you do listen to music?
IF: There is a major difference because as a conductor I hear the musicians from a very close distance. Being inside the orchestra makes the emotional experience much more intense. There you feel the human motivation, the expression of each performer. I even experimented with a concert form in which the audience and the musicians are mixed. Sitting in a hall can be beautiful because of the well-balanced sound you hear but the emotional impact is much stronger within the orchestra.
YH: Recently, you replaced Mikko Franck at a Berliner Philharmoniker concert. You played Rautavaara, Prokofiev, Debussy, and Ravel. These are composers outside of your usual repertoire, especially Rautavaara. Was it a difficult decision to replace Mikko Franck, given that the pieces are not your usual 18th and 19th-century repertoire? Relatedly, how did it feel like, as an experienced conductor, to rehearse and play music you may be slightly unaccustomed to?
IF: It was difficult because I only received news about his inability to conduct during the afternoon one day before the concert. However, I thought that the audience shouldn’t be disappointed, and I learned the original program quickly. It was an exciting, unusual experience to conduct a whole program chosen by somebody else.
III.
YH: We’ve heard of the sad loss of Marta Kurtág. How can you describe her to people who have and perhaps will never meet her ever?
IF: This couple was unusually close to each other. They did everything together from discussing Mr Kurtág's new compositions to exchanging ideas about the progress of his students. Márta and Gyuri were inseparable. She had a strong will and complemented perfectly his out of this world character. They played often together on an upright piano. I don’t know how Gyuri will manage to live now because everything seemed to be connected to his wife.
YH: It is my understanding that you compose, and you have recorded some of your pieces. Since you play so much music of other composers, do you become worried you might be influenced too much by others?
IF: Yes, I am worried but to hide this duality of being a conductor and a composer would be dishonest. Even in the case of Gustav Mahler, I can hear the conductor Mahler in the compositions. He was even accused of stealing from various sources. If Mahler didn’t hide this flow of influences why should I?
YH: Are there moments you get inspired for compositions in particular?
IF: At any moment there can be an impulse coming from the most unexpected situations. For example, somebody sings, whistles or says something which catches my attention. It can even be a sound in the street. When I start to compose, I usually need some time to improvise for example at a
piano in order to open the door to myself and exclude music by others.
piano in order to open the door to myself and exclude music by others.
IV.
YH: Mahler is a composer you strongly identify with (apart from the 8th symphony). Bruckner is often mentioned together with Mahler, and perhaps there are similarities between the two composers. Is there perhaps a reason you play relatively more Mahler than Bruckner?
IF: They are similar if you consider the sound and the grandness of the symphonic structure, but they couldn’t be more different as personalities. Bruckner was a slow working, methodical craftsman, Mahler, on the other hand, was an unrestrained genius. Music flew out of Mahler’s mind without any effort whereas Bruckner had to make a plan first. I feel much more familiarity with Mahler’s music, it seems to me like somebody I know well but I also admire and love Bruckner and I perform his music regularly.
YH: Mozart once said that “Music, even in situations of the greatest horror, should never be painful to the ear but should flatter and charm it, and thereby always remain music.” In your experience, can or should there be ugly music?
IF: Yes, this is a famous quote by Mozart, and I think he means musical harmonies and rules. The emotional expression is another issue. For example, music can have aggression, even ugliness. In Mozart's operas, we don’t have completely ugly characters but from the time of Beethoven, we do. For example, there is no point to sing the role of Pizarro in Fidelio with a beautiful sound. It should sound ugly.
YH: What are some of your future plans?
IF: I want to continue on reforming the Budapest Festival Orchestra which is in continuous change. I see it as a model for the symphony orchestra of the future.
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| Iván Fischer, © Marco Borggreve |
Young-Jin Hur
@yjhur1885