INTERVIEW | Pierre-Laurent Aimard | "I want to remain a craftsman and I want to communicate with human beings who are all different"

In conversation with Pierre-Laurent Aimard
Online interview on 4 April 2023

Pierre-Laurent Aimard

Often named a specialist in contemporary classical music, few musicians enjoy a greater reputation than pianist Pierre-Laurent Aimard. Yet the assignment of a specialism to an individual, even if it may have its merits, is, in truth, hopelessly short of presenting a true depiction of an artist. Especially for Aimard, a musician of boundless invention, a label may be yet another expectation to surpass, as his recent concerts - where he explores musical frontiers beyond the tethers of certain styles and eras - demonstrate.

One might perhaps say there is a duality in Aimard's artistry: the contemporary music specialist, set against the artist who constantly searches and crafts across a multitude of musical traditions. In my conversation with Aimard, I, thus, hoped to understand the thoughts and wisdom that underlie this multifacetedness. Throughout the half-an-hour conversation, we talked about his latest concert programme that centres around pianistic fantasies across the eras. We also discussed the fine line between order and disorder in music, the role of beauty in contemporary art, and the nature of communication in concert stages.

Below is a transcript of our conversation.

[Note. All interviews on the website are approved by the interviewees prior to publication.]

I.

Young-Jin Hur (YH): Good morning. Thank you very much for making time this morning. It's a pleasure and honour to have you as a guest. 

Pierre-Laurent Aimard (PA): Good morning. It's a pleasure to be here, too.

YH: So, I'd like to start with the bread and butter of any conversation: How are you today?

PA: It is the start of the day... I am full of expectations of what could happen. I am interested in all the surprises that could occur throughout the day. 

YH: That is certainly a positive outlook (YH smiles). My understanding is that it is around 9am in Berlin, which is where you currently are. Gathering from the fact that you are happy to hold interviews at quite an early time of the working day, would you say you are a morning person?

PA: I became a morning person. I love to wake up very early. I find that the first quiet hours of the day, when most of the world is still asleep and very quiet, are fruitful for reflection and concentrated decisions. I like it.

YH: I understand your sentiment. Was there a special occasion that made you a morning person? 

PA: Over the years, I noticed that the body changes based on its needs and rhythm. Before, I was an evening person. It corresponded well with the discipline I am in. But life is made of constant changes.

YH: I see. Once you've noticed these changes in you, have you made this into a strict routine? Or do you follow your body's instincts on a day-to-day basis?

PA: I follow every day's circumstances - every day is different. When it comes to my activities as a musician, I often find myself in different parts of the world. Adapting to varying circumstances is key. For example, in my current schedule, I am adapting myself to jetlag on a monthly basis. This inevitably has an effect on my biorhythm.

YH: It must be stressful to adapt yourself to new time zones every month.

PA: It's a discipline. You get partly used to it. You can also learn to be disciplined when it comes to adapting yourself to these radical changes in your body. 

YH: I see. I notice that you brought up the word "discipline" a few times in the conversation already. Is discipline an important quality for you?

PA: Of course. If you intend to master a discipline as a professional, you need discipline. But I think it's also an important ingredient for a consistent life, generally speaking. 

YH: I agree with you. I'd now like to bring you to the topic of touring, which you alluded to a moment ago when talking about jetlag. When I looked up your upcoming tour schedule, I couldn't help noticing your incredibly diverse repertoire. In your concerts in Bilbao and London, for example, you play a 17th-century Dutch composer Sweelinck - and then play Chopin, Mozart, Beethoven, and George Benjamin all in the same concert. I'd like to know how you came up with this programme.

PA: I came up with this programme through a reflection on freedom for humankind. I think this is a key dimension [in life] and I thought of how I can try to have an artistic and musical reflection on this dimension. I thought about what we can observe in how creators of different eras deal with their own independence from the existing outer frames of each era. I wondered how these creators can adapt to some traditions but retain as openly as possible their own free choices and imaginations. This was the basic thought for these programmes. 

In taking on this idea, the right genre for this programme was fantasy. In most parts of our history - not always, but in most parts - there is no defined form for this genre. The composer decides what will be their own journey. 

YH: I suppose there is a fine line between freedom and structure. I can imagine that total freedom would result in pure chaos. Conversely, sticking too much to existing frameworks can rob a piece of its originality. In your opinion, how can one strike a balance between the two?

PA: In my opinion, total freedom doesn't exist for humankind. Humans are very structured beings. And human life can work by observing the rules of structures. If we think of one's social life, for example, we realise there are many layers of structures. 

The feeling of freedom and the space for freedom can only come when the circumstances are there, in other words, when a certain amount of rules are respected and followed. In fact, if we speak of artistic realisations, high levels of freedom very often can come when mastery of the rules is integrated into the product.

YH: I agree. I believe freedom without integrating some accepted rules risks being incomprehensible. If something is incomprehensible, this might undermine freedom's true values. 

PA: Yes, that would be anarchism or chaos. 

II.

YH: In this context, how does Beethoven's Fantasia for Piano - a piece you will perform - feel different from say, a Beethoven piano sonata? The latter piece is a much more "structured" piece than the fantasy. 

PA: Beethoven's Fantasia for Piano has a special history. Beethoven organised a concert in December 1808 - it was a gigantic programme where the fifth and sixth symphonies, the fourth piano concerto, and the Choral Fantasy were premiered. 

Before the last piece of the programme, the Choral Fantasy, he played an improvised piece on the piano. One year later, his editor asked him to write down what he had improvised. So he wrote a piece in memory of this improvisation. This improvisation was in the context of a programme with many pieces by him. So one can understand such a thinker and architect has integrated many dimensions of the other compositions into this improvised performance. But having no dictated form, like a sonata, he could do whatever he wanted. And obviously, the discourse in this fantasy is completely unusual. It's as if he is searching for his way within the piece, with gestures of interrogation, unsure answers, abrupt decisions, incredible modulations and changes of mood... and at the end, surprisingly a theme and variation in a very foreign key of B major. The theme is very short and so are the variations. That means there are very sudden and frequent changes. So the whole piece has an energy of change, surprise, and interruption that is unsurpassed in a Beethoven production.  

YH: I see. Does this spirit of change exist in all the fantasy pieces you chose to play in the upcoming concerts? 

PA: Uhm... yes and no. Sweelinck, for instance, lived at a time between the Renaissance times and the Baroque period, where fantasia meant a very precise form and composition. In a fantasia of the time, a piece would - so to speak - alternate between strong, disciplined polyphonic passages and passages of a very free and improvisatory style. But in Sweelinck's piece, there is something else. He integrates both dimensions. He starts with a purely polyphonic passage but the ornamentations will develop and become little by little virtuosic passages that are entirely in the Baroque spirit. And these ornaments would interfere and eventually envelop and almost mask the original polyphonic passage. So it is like a composition with a free form, a dialectic between two types of music that correspond to two eras. This is the perfect composition for somebody who was the bridge between the Renaissance times and the Baroque period. 

YH: When did you decide to play Sweelinck on the piano?

PA: Sweelinck is a great organ composer and a major voice of his era. So he was a part of my musical world. In fact, at the start, I never thought that I would play his pieces on the piano... though some colleagues did it. I initially thought it would be inappropriate to play Sweelinck's pieces on the piano considering issues of instrument and tuning. But it was only when I started looking for the right pieces for this fantasy programme that I thought that some Sweelinck pieces - the Fantasia Chromatica (SwWV 258) and Echo Fantasia No. 4 (SwWv 261) - could fit in well to the overall programme and it could bring an enriching perspective to the general idea. 

YH: Ah, I see. It is clear to me that you spend a huge part of your energy on programming your concerts. I could also discern subtle differences even in the same fantasy programme between those you give in Bilbao and London. For example, you play Elliott Carter's Night Fantasies only in London - conversely, you play Volkonsky's Musica Stricta, Fantasia Ricercata only in Bilbao.

If I may ask, it seems that the fantasy programme consists of pieces that have diverse styles within themselves. Is there a part of you that worries that the concert programme may feel, let's say, less united? There may be too many interruptions within a single evening. 

PA: On the contrary, I think because these pieces share a trait of not having a continuous discourse - fantasy is a genre of music where a piece constantly searches for its own direction - there is a sense of unity to the programme. It's interesting to see how CPE Bach, for example, conceives a fantasy in a very joking and bizarre way, but all done in a deeply personal way and with an incredible sense of freedom in terms of modulations. Mozart, in his Fantasia for Piano in C minor,  composes a kind of - as is so characteristic of Mozart - an intense, small, and dramatic opera. The idea of this programme is to observe the many facets of answering the same question by different people in different eras, to see how each composer deals with the lacking of continuity as a musical invention. 

YH: This sounds great. Thank you for going into such detail with regard to the programme.

III.

YH: I would now like to go to the next part of the interview, where I'd like to ask some questions about your performance of contemporary classical music. 

It must be an exciting venture to explore unchartered and unrecorded territories within classical music. After all, you are so well known for performing and representing contemporary classical music. As a general question, I am curious about how you select your contemporary pieces to perform. 

PA: I think about what could make sense for an audience and I find it legitimate to adapt my programmes to the different places I play. I don't like the idea of a formatted and unchanged programme that will be delivered to all concert halls - I think this is more of an industry-based show and not flexible craftmanship. I want to remain a craftsman and I want to communicate with human beings who are all different, with different expectations and different ways of life. 

So I think about what could make sense at a certain place at a given moment for realising my beliefs and reflections, and for sharing them. For me, a concert is not entertainment - well, there is a part of it that is entertainment, but a concert is primarily a meeting between human beings around the stage. The stage allows us to communicate and reflect at deep levels so that this shared moment can be an enrichment for human cultural life. 

YH: I see. From what you've said, I understand that communication, craftsmanship, and a slight element of entertainment are important purposes behind your performances. Is beauty an important element as well?

PA: Beauty is a very delicate and relative subject because the criteria of beauty change all the time and are different across countries. Some canons of beauty for a given society, country, or civilisation are not the same as those of another world - or can be the opposite even. Beauty in itself is part of what art seeks, but it's just one of many things. Art seeks larger dimensions than beauty. It seeks a certain type of truth - beauty is a part of it but not exclusively. Many art forms incorporate a much larger scale of human experiences... including ugliness, violence, chaos, and many other dimensions that are not considered a priority in a certain image that mainstream Western culture promotes. 

YH: When it comes to this multi-faceted nature of art experiences - and you mentioned ugliness and violence - do you think this is even more emphasised in contemporary music? The reason I  ask this is that I'm teaching at a fashion university and I recently had a fascinating conversation with a student of mine. According to the student, contemporary fashion isn't anymore about beauty but about rejecting beauty... fashion is about ugliness, self-expression, and delivering social messages. Therefore, do you think contemporary classical music - in congruence with this attitude, assuming what the student said is true - similarly has an increasing support for things related less to beauty?

PA: Since about 120 years ago, so before the first world war, all the arts - slightly at different moments - achieved a profound revolution that corresponded to drastic changes that were taking place in the rest of the world. We entered the era of relativity. The ideal projection of humankind was that the world was no longer made of a dominant culture and philosophy but of a multiplicity of cultures. Consequently, creators could follow different paths of creation, without a collective language and collective codes. 

We live much later after this considerable revolution. Our era is a consequence of this past revolution and is certainly very hard to understand. At the moment, we see that even experts and analysts of politics, economics, climatology, and sociology have great difficulties in defining our era, which is an era of strong and fast mutations. The arts reflect this multiplicity and this search for identity. Consequently, the arts are so multiple and sometimes so lost. And what happens when one is lost? One needs to refer to existing frames. One looks back to the past. Therefore, there is so much conservatism as well in our era. But this mix between these extremes is extremely complex to understand because there is, by chance, in our relatively free countries, the possibility for all or most of them to exist. I find myself very excited. I am thankful that I am living in a time that gives opportunities to so many voices to express themselves. 

YH: Indeed, it's not an easy time to comprehend (YH laughs). What do you think will be the next step of civilisation after our era?

PA: I'm not sure (PA shrugs shoulder before smiling). I cannot tell you anything. I will wait and I will try to understand whatever comes... and then try to communicate. 

(both laugh)

IV.

YH: Communication seems a very important philosophy of yours. And so far, we mainly talked about communication between you as a performer and the audience. However, given that you perform many pieces from living composers, how important is the communication between you and living composers? I can imagine that this would enable you to better communicate a composer's intentions when you perform.

PA: On a personal level, I always felt attracted to creators, because I found them to be more interesting than others. This is the kind of person who has the need and capacity to create for their entire life and depend on this creative power. So, his or her culture, reflection, fantasy, and behaviour are special. I don't like banality - I am attracted by the exceptional (PA laughs). It makes me breathe as a professional, artist, or musician. If I want to go as close as possible to my role as an interpreter, of course, working with a composer, I believe, is the best and ultimate way. It's the cherry on the cake... or maybe it's the cake.

(both laugh)

PA: Of course, I can study all the works, recordings, interviews, and writings of the composer. But in the end, asking specific questions, listening to the composer's voice singing and speaking about their own compositions and, therefore, understanding their way of thinking, and catching something from his imagination are irreplaceable dimensions of music-making for me. Communicating with the composer like this gives the chance to be even closer to his or her work. 

YH: Given that you are so attracted to creators and to the process of creation, have you considered composing?

PA: No. I am not a writer. I am not a creator at all. I am fully an interpreter. This is what interests me. I think because I am an interpreter, I am so attracted to creators - creators are the subjects of my life. 

YH: Once could say that you are a creator, too. You create experiences and legacies through recordings. 

PA: Not in the same sense. I hope and think that I am creative in my way to do my function as an interpreter. But in our tradition... it's not the same thing.

(both laugh)

YH: I have one final question regarding contemporary classical music. I've often read descriptions of you naming you a specialist in contemporary classical music. Does this label frustrate you from time to time?

PA: We live in a world that needs to give labels. This is easier for communication. And this is reducing everything and everyone all the time. Of course, a human being is very rich and complex and has nothing to do with a label. 

My musical activities always intended to embrace the largest possible range of styles and eras and I am interested in connecting the past and the future to understand what defines the present. This means I always need as many witnesses of the past as creators of today who have visions of tomorrow - this enables me to feel balanced. For this reason, I have always said I love my parents and my children equally, and not one against the other one.

And I always liked the idea that we are in constant change as human beings and that we carry a strong tradition. Therefore, our chance to prepare for tomorrow every day is to renew our contact with our traditions every day and to examine how the interrogations of today can be comforted by the past. Conversely, the answers of today can make us reconsider the past. So, I try in my programmes to harmonise this complementary relationship between the past, the present, and the future, in order to stimulate this reflection within my listener. 

YH: This is a very wise answer - thank you for sharing your thoughts and reflections. 

I'd now like to ask my final question. It's much less of a philosophical question than a practical one (YH laughs). You will be performing Ligeti's piano concerto in Korea at the end of the month. Are you looking forward to your visit?

PA: Yes, I am very much looking forward. There was a planned project with the Seoul Philharmonic Orchestra that couldn't be realised in the past. One of them was to give the premiere of Tristan Murail's piano concerto  Le Désenchantement du Monde some years ago when the orchestra was a co-commissioner. But we couldn't find the time, unfortunately. So I am very happy that there is this occasion for me to finally perform with this orchestra. I am glad that I am playing a Ligeti piece in the Ligeti centenary - in fact, the concert takes place very close to Ligeti's actual birthday, which is in May. 

YH: Are you hoping to experience Korea beyond the music scene as well?

PA: As ever, I try to experience as much as possible the place of my performance and get to know the people I will be among. I love travelling and I love the act of trying to understand different mentalities and cultures by entering different parts of the world. 

YH: Korea has a particularly lovely springtime - I especially hope you can enjoy this. If you end up waking up early due to jetlag, I hope you can experience the calm of the city in the context of spring coming. With this, I can only wish you a lovely April, performing many great concerts we talked about today... and beyond as well. I'd like to thank you once again for making time. It was really insightful talking with you. 

PA: Thank you very much for your excellent questions and for this sensible interview (PA smiles).

YH: Ah, thank you very much! 

PA: All the best. I hope to see you another time. 

[Interviews with the following pianists are also available in the blog: Seong-Jin Cho, Jan Lisiecki, Angela Hewitt, Nikolai Lugansky, etc.]

 

Pierre-Laurent Aimard

Young-Jin Hur

@yjhur1885

© Where Cherries Ripen / Young-Jin Hur