INTERVIEW | François-Xavier Roth | "music can change us - it has to provoke"
In conversation with François-Xavier Roth
Interviewed in London on 23 April 2019
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| François-Xavier Roth, © Holger-Talinski |
On this day, the London Symphony Orchestra rehearses with Principal Guest Conductor François-Xavier Roth an only-Ravel programme; on the menu are Rapsodie espagnole, Boléro, and L’heure espagnole. Prior to the rehearsals, I was given 15 minutes with Roth; I wanted to explore the changing roles of conductors and audiences over the years, the role of music in society, what makes a piece of music judged as good, and the topic of intentions in music. It was a particularly busy morning, our interview interrupted by a number of greetings and inquiries. Still, in Roth's friendly yet precisely crafted replies to these inquiries and in his perceptive answers to my questions, I was given a glimpse into why he is so eagerly demanded from orchestras across the world and, especially this morning, from the London Symphony Orchestra.
Below is a transcript of our conversation.
I.
Young-Jin Hur (YH): Hello Mr Roth, welcome to London. How are you today?
François-Xavier Roth (FR): I am fine, thank you.
YH: You've been Principal Guest Conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra (LSO) since 2017. How is it like to work with the orchestra?
FR: It's a long story for me. I conducted the LSO from when I was already an assistant conductor, back in 2010. Since then, I have never had a year where I didn't conduct the orchestra. At some point, the orchestra came to me proposing the position of Principal Guest Conductor. It's a great honour and pleasure to have received that offer. The LSO is not only an amazing orchestra with great musicianship but also an orchestra with a strong spirit of music-making. So I am very lucky to be working with these musicians on a regular basis.
YH: That's lovely. I attended a number of concerts you gave with the LSO, and there was unmistakable chemistry in the collaboration.
FR: Thank you.
YH: As a conductor, you've worked in the past with renowned names such as János Fürst and Sir John Eliot Gardiner. Reflecting on your experiences with them, do you think the roles of conductors have changed over the years, generally speaking?
FR: Yes. We can especially notice the changing roles of conductors in relation to society. The conductor is not anymore only a musician leading musical projects with an orchestra, but also someone who takes an active interest in how music impacts people's lives. Nowadays, conductors consider social activities of an orchestra, implications of presenting modern composers in concert programmes, plans in relation to who listens to a performance... and consider media strategies unique to a community, city, and region. These are important concerns.
YH: Yes, music and society seemingly have an important relationship. Do you think music can change society?
FR: Sure, there is no doubt about that. Music can change everything, including people's lives. We also live in a time when giving clarity to this music-society relationship is more important than it ever was. We want to make sure that our money is used wisely, particularly when the economy is not at its best. In this process, it is important to propose something creative to make explicit how music is important in our lives.
[Note. In my interviews with Sunwook Kim, Vasily Petrenko, and Iván Fischer, we talked about the role of music in society.]
FR: It's a long story for me. I conducted the LSO from when I was already an assistant conductor, back in 2010. Since then, I have never had a year where I didn't conduct the orchestra. At some point, the orchestra came to me proposing the position of Principal Guest Conductor. It's a great honour and pleasure to have received that offer. The LSO is not only an amazing orchestra with great musicianship but also an orchestra with a strong spirit of music-making. So I am very lucky to be working with these musicians on a regular basis.
YH: That's lovely. I attended a number of concerts you gave with the LSO, and there was unmistakable chemistry in the collaboration.
FR: Thank you.
YH: As a conductor, you've worked in the past with renowned names such as János Fürst and Sir John Eliot Gardiner. Reflecting on your experiences with them, do you think the roles of conductors have changed over the years, generally speaking?
FR: Yes. We can especially notice the changing roles of conductors in relation to society. The conductor is not anymore only a musician leading musical projects with an orchestra, but also someone who takes an active interest in how music impacts people's lives. Nowadays, conductors consider social activities of an orchestra, implications of presenting modern composers in concert programmes, plans in relation to who listens to a performance... and consider media strategies unique to a community, city, and region. These are important concerns.
YH: Yes, music and society seemingly have an important relationship. Do you think music can change society?
FR: Sure, there is no doubt about that. Music can change everything, including people's lives. We also live in a time when giving clarity to this music-society relationship is more important than it ever was. We want to make sure that our money is used wisely, particularly when the economy is not at its best. In this process, it is important to propose something creative to make explicit how music is important in our lives.
[Note. In my interviews with Sunwook Kim, Vasily Petrenko, and Iván Fischer, we talked about the role of music in society.]
II.
YH: You've mentioned that the roles of conductors have changed over the years. Do you think audiences have also changed?
FR: Yes, certainly. The ways one attends concerts and the ways that music is involved in everyday life have drastically changed. Before, we didn't have these machines (FR points at his mobile phone) with podcasts, music, and so on. For example, I can listen to live performances taking place in Japan and the USA while I am sitting in the London Underground. All these things automatically change people's individual relationships with music.
YH: Could one say that it's become a bit too easy to listen to music? I wonder if this effortlessness ubiquitousness of music-listening can also damage some of music's values.
FR: Yes, listening to music has become easier. At the same time, you have things that do not change. For example, the aesthetic values of a Bruckner symphony will never change. Of course, the perceptions of time can change, depending on the context of listening to music and the time we are living in. Even consider the basic idea that in the past, the age of 40 was considered to be an old age already, whereas nowadays, you can expect people to live beyond the age of 90; this also changes the perception of time. So, time perceptions will inevitably change depending on many things. But the most important experiences in music do not change at all. This is the magic of music.
YH: I agree. Talking about the magic of music, I feel it is appropriate I bring up the topic of your performances. You have a distinctly wide repertoire. One day you programme Baroque music; then you play something from the classical era; soon afterwards, you perform works by contemporary composers such as some works by Wolfgang Rihm; you are even deeply involved in performing music by young composers, as can be seen in your involvement in the LSO's Panufnik Composers Scheme. I do not know many musicians who display this level of versatility. Given such an extraordinary range of music, how do you determine what is good music? In fact, is there such a thing as good music?
YH: You've mentioned that the roles of conductors have changed over the years. Do you think audiences have also changed?
FR: Yes, certainly. The ways one attends concerts and the ways that music is involved in everyday life have drastically changed. Before, we didn't have these machines (FR points at his mobile phone) with podcasts, music, and so on. For example, I can listen to live performances taking place in Japan and the USA while I am sitting in the London Underground. All these things automatically change people's individual relationships with music.
YH: Could one say that it's become a bit too easy to listen to music? I wonder if this effortlessness ubiquitousness of music-listening can also damage some of music's values.
FR: Yes, listening to music has become easier. At the same time, you have things that do not change. For example, the aesthetic values of a Bruckner symphony will never change. Of course, the perceptions of time can change, depending on the context of listening to music and the time we are living in. Even consider the basic idea that in the past, the age of 40 was considered to be an old age already, whereas nowadays, you can expect people to live beyond the age of 90; this also changes the perception of time. So, time perceptions will inevitably change depending on many things. But the most important experiences in music do not change at all. This is the magic of music.
YH: I agree. Talking about the magic of music, I feel it is appropriate I bring up the topic of your performances. You have a distinctly wide repertoire. One day you programme Baroque music; then you play something from the classical era; soon afterwards, you perform works by contemporary composers such as some works by Wolfgang Rihm; you are even deeply involved in performing music by young composers, as can be seen in your involvement in the LSO's Panufnik Composers Scheme. I do not know many musicians who display this level of versatility. Given such an extraordinary range of music, how do you determine what is good music? In fact, is there such a thing as good music?
FR: It won't be possible to come up with an objective measure or definition of what good music is. There are many aspects involved in the judgement of what is good or not - this will depend on your personal taste, work, and your experiences. Ultimately, you cannot say whether a piece in and of itself is good or not.
However, every musician can have a projection of his/her career. Knowing your career projection, you start to develop preferences. The mechanism behind this process is that, simply, you have "faith" [sic.] in things and you want to learn more about what you believe in. For example, if you are interested in composers who worked on aspects such as instrumental colour or polyphony, you trust this music and you develop your specialisation in accordance to your specific aims. I think every musician has or should have these projections. Following one's musical direction, one makes choices. In any case, the judgement of what is good or bad has really to do with what you believe in. And when it comes to music, people differ in what they believe.
YH: In your case, what is your belief in music?
FR: I think that music can change lives. Music should never be a decoration. Instead, music should be a way of moving people to the core and, in the process, changing how people perceive. This is what draws me to period instruments and the general period style of playing, for example. Period instruments are shocking because they challenge traditions; I do not play in traditional ways where people can think, "that's nice." I think music can change us - it has to provoke.
YH: You mentioned Bruckner earlier. I was at the performance when you played Bruckner's fourth symphony here at the Barbican with the LSO. It was an unforgettable performance; it changed the way I usually view the symphony.
FR: It's very nice of you to say.
III.
YH: Extending on the theme of your performances, a music critic once described your music-making as "empathetic musicality and flair for colour." What does this mean?
FR: I don't know. People can describe how I conduct. They can also comment on or criticise my playing. However, I just do my thing, and I cannot have an opinion about these evaluations. I play music in a way I think every musician should. Regardless of instrumentation or style, every musician should play a piece as if the composer is together in the concert hall. This is the case for all composers, whether it's Bach, Mozart, Berlioz, or Mahler. And it's so important that we, as musicians, try to revive the original spirit of what these composers intended to say.
[Note. In my interviews with Denis Matsuev, we talked about music critics and how musicians respond to criticism.]
A danger in music is that after multiple performances, you can forget the original purpose behind a piece. This can be disturbing because this original purpose may be very different from the traditions we've developed through repeated performances. So my way of music is to return to the original text and to go back to the time the piece was first performed or to the time the composer lived. I establish this mindset every time I start rehearsals. This way, I have the orchestra understand the direction we are taking. This practice is more philosophical and spiritual than pragmatic. I want to play a piece as if it's the first time the piece is performed.
[Note. In my interview with Jakub Hrůša, Principal Guest Conductor of the Philharmonia Orchestra, we had a long discussion on performance philosophies. Reflecting FR's viewpoint on the "philosophical and spiritual" aspects in rehearsals, JH implied that performance decisions can have much to do with projecting the right mindset, this mindset being independent of strictly pragmatic or technical issues.]
YH: That's such an interesting and good point. Yet all performances will sound different, even if each performer may be convinced that he/she is playing a piece in the way the composer intended.
FR: Sure. There is no single solution. This is why music is so powerful. You have endless options. The vast possibilities of interpretations are there because great music can sound great in different ways. Every conductor will have his/her own path. I, for example, conducted Bach's St John Passion not long ago before playing Stravinsky's Firebird. And now, I am here to play Ravel. Other conductors will have an entirely different and unique path. And these paths make our music-making different from each other. Even if I look at myself, the way I will perform a piece this week will not be the same way I will perform this piece in 5 years. Likewise, I conduct differently from how I used to conduct 10 years ago. We constantly work and study, and we change through time, depending on what we decide to focus on. It's a musician's path.
YH: That is a wonderful answer. Thank you for your time.
FR: It's my pleasure.
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| François-Xavier Roth, © Marco Borggreve |
Young-Jin Hur
@yjhur1885
© Where Cherries Ripen / Young-Jin Hur